Study offers four-point rebuttal to 2022 claim that they're a kind of eco-Turing pattern.
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The Namibian fairy circle debate rages on: Could it be sand termites after all?
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IMHO, the "Turing machine" explanation always seemed like hogwash to me. Plants compete. They do not cooperate. They may have early warning systems (which is true of those infested by bugs) and can communicate that infestation/illness to other plants, but that's not the kind of cooperation needed to produce patterns like those observed.
This is true in any environment on Earth, so finding an exception to this rule would require far more proof than speculation. The explanations always sounded like rationalizations to me.
Toss in the variable of another outside influence besides drought and the answer presents itself. Critters in the soil seems to be a far more likely explanation than grossly abnormal plant cooperation. Toss in the unique properties of the soil there, and the ecosystem itself, and the evidence is much more supportive of sand fleas than plant cooperation.
This is true in any environment on Earth, so finding an exception to this rule would require far more proof than speculation. The explanations always sounded like rationalizations to me.
Toss in the variable of another outside influence besides drought and the answer presents itself. Critters in the soil seems to be a far more likely explanation than grossly abnormal plant cooperation. Toss in the unique properties of the soil there, and the ecosystem itself, and the evidence is much more supportive of sand fleas than plant cooperation.
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I am so weirdly into this story over the years. And now, Turing patterns generally.
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I would bet a hundred dollars the Turing hypothesis is wrong. The termite one seems more likely. It may be neither. My main rational for the "not Turing" is the circles would almost certainly not be nearly all, nearly perfectly circular. Variations in subsoil, existence or absence of organic material. The random rock in one section etc. The termite hypothesis would not be much affected by these variables. The dismissal due to lack of termite bites seems trite. Additionally it may be termites, but for different types interference with the soil milieu.
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How about the possibility of both mechanism occuring simultaneously? Perhaps it's a coupled phenomenon which produces the circles?
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While not disagreeing with it being a result of the critters, and while only understanding half of the article as I don’t claim to be “an smart man”, aren’t fairy rings the result of a singular organism? Just in the context of plants not cooperating, certain grasses can grow their own shoots.
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Other possible causes:
I think we need to investigate all the possible causes, before leaping to the mundane conclusion that's it's caused by perfectly natural processes.
- Aliens.
- Really small whirlwinds.
I think we need to investigate all the possible causes, before leaping to the mundane conclusion that's it's caused by perfectly natural processes.
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Wheels Of Confusion
Ars Legatus Legionis
Maybe it really is fairies, and they're stomping all the sprouts down with their boots?
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It seems like there either is, or is not, a termite nest at the center of each circle, and that this could be tested for.
The existence of the debate seems premised on the lack of termite nests at the predicted location.
The Turing pattern explanation seems a bit weak, though.
It doesn't seem like the soil analysis has been good enough to rule out cyclical patterns of some unknown microorganism. I suspect it it will be something like that, rather than either of the hypotheses discussed in the story.
The existence of the debate seems premised on the lack of termite nests at the predicted location.
The Turing pattern explanation seems a bit weak, though.
It doesn't seem like the soil analysis has been good enough to rule out cyclical patterns of some unknown microorganism. I suspect it it will be something like that, rather than either of the hypotheses discussed in the story.
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Turing patterns are produced by many reaction-diffusion systems and explain things like zebra stripes and leopard spots. They don't require cooperation, just a certain type of nonlinear intreaction between two (or more) components. A Turing machine is an abstraction of a computer and has nothing to do with what is going on here.
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And his dog acting insult to injury by repeatedly peeing in the same spots.
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I'm guessing the fantastical name and supernatural historic explanation helps elevate this debate.
If we're going to pre-suppose the cause is natural and not supernatural, can we dispense with the colloquial fantasy name of the subject? Just call them "circular patches of land barren of plants." Probably won't attract many clicks with a name like that, though.
Reminds me of the "walking" rocks in the desert.
If we're going to pre-suppose the cause is natural and not supernatural, can we dispense with the colloquial fantasy name of the subject? Just call them "circular patches of land barren of plants." Probably won't attract many clicks with a name like that, though.
Reminds me of the "walking" rocks in the desert.
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"The to and fro between opposing camps has often been nothing less than vitriolic”
Could be an example of the adage about academic quarrels being especially vicious because the stakes are so low.
Could be an example of the adage about academic quarrels being especially vicious because the stakes are so low.
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To me it seems likely that at least 99% of the eggheads involved in this study have never seen one of the circles with their own eyes. I mean, a good expert would go there and check what's happening, not debate from the other half of the world on what do some pictures show.
Can't be that hard to go there when the circles are being created (or shortly after) and check what's going on, right?
Can't be that hard to go there when the circles are being created (or shortly after) and check what's going on, right?
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I find this debate quite interesting. I’m having a hard time leaning toward the Turing pattern camp though. I have seen deep summer plant stress in my own yard. One that is interesting to see if the massive oak tree sucking water from around it harming the grasses. There is always a distinct ring stretching 15-20ft out from its center as the heat of the summer kicks up. I have never seen grasses do this in patterns though, they tend to all die off at roughly the same rate without making seemingly random circular patterns depending on obvious water scarcity (die back faster around the concrete, for example.)
I’d be curious to know what is different in these sands that make grasses fully exhaust water/resources in circle patterns compared to other soils.
I have seen fungus/grub damage. Dollar spot creates circular destruction of grasses in my area. The patterns seem to align more with external competition with insects/microbes. Fascinating to hear the exchanges!
I’d be curious to know what is different in these sands that make grasses fully exhaust water/resources in circle patterns compared to other soils.
I have seen fungus/grub damage. Dollar spot creates circular destruction of grasses in my area. The patterns seem to align more with external competition with insects/microbes. Fascinating to hear the exchanges!
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There's a KML file linked in this older Google Earth blog with locations of a few interesting features around the world, including the fairy-circles.
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All these desert planetologists' various theories about moisture depth and sandy soil get me thinking...whichever doctor has a name most like "Liet-Kynes"--I will fall in on that side of the debate.
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I am skeptical of much lateral transport of water in these kinds of soils. The claims by the Turing folks seems overstated. the point already made about variation in lateral homogeneity of the soil should also produce more variation in the circles, which we seem to see here.
It does appear to be an unfriendly disagreement, but it seems that some of the claims and counter claims are provable one way or another. For example, do those cited papers contain evidence of termites or not. Maybe the Turing camp doesn't think they are good papers, but did those papers verify termites in the soil? That should be fairly clear.
It does appear to be an unfriendly disagreement, but it seems that some of the claims and counter claims are provable one way or another. For example, do those cited papers contain evidence of termites or not. Maybe the Turing camp doesn't think they are good papers, but did those papers verify termites in the soil? That should be fairly clear.
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Wheels Of Confusion
Ars Legatus Legionis
Some of that may be due to the oak poisoning the surrounding soil, too. Oaks are pretty notorious for employing allelopathy through their leaves and roots. If the soil is drying up, those toxic elements might become more concentrated around the roots of other plants.
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Sounds like it's time to do some aluminum casting to check out the termite activity. Stabilize those tunnels and then dig them up and look at the impressions.
Also, if the aluminum doesn't freeze, then it's time to confirm the dragon hypothesis and run.
Also, if the aluminum doesn't freeze, then it's time to confirm the dragon hypothesis and run.
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Wheels Of Confusion
Ars Legatus Legionis
Part of the problem, as stated in the article, is that you don't always have an intact termite nest in the circles. The circles apparently persist longer than the active nests do, and the sands can collapse tunnels that used to exist if they aren't maintained. That doesn't mean termites aren't doing the damage, just that it can be hard to catch them in the act.
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Yes, timing would be a critical component if casting was actually employed.
A more subtle approach could be chemical analysis of termite markers in a 3d grid. See if waste products (or whatever persistent evidence) is of higher concentration in the rings than the grassy areas. Although that wouldn't show causality - it might just indicate that termites have a preference based on the hydrology or abundance/lack of plant matter. It'd at least be another data point to argue about.
A more subtle approach could be chemical analysis of termite markers in a 3d grid. See if waste products (or whatever persistent evidence) is of higher concentration in the rings than the grassy areas. Although that wouldn't show causality - it might just indicate that termites have a preference based on the hydrology or abundance/lack of plant matter. It'd at least be another data point to argue about.
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Has fungus been considered?
I know that in my yard (which is North America, not Namib or Australia), I will occasionally get fungus circles where trees or shrubs used to be. The upshot is that the interior of the circle turns bare for a year or two and then eventually regrows.
But I live in an a warm and humid climate, so my experience with fungus may not be relevant in Africa.
I know that in my yard (which is North America, not Namib or Australia), I will occasionally get fungus circles where trees or shrubs used to be. The upshot is that the interior of the circle turns bare for a year or two and then eventually regrows.
But I live in an a warm and humid climate, so my experience with fungus may not be relevant in Africa.
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Since fungus fairy circles are a known thing (the underground mycelium growing outwards exhausts the resources and the middle dies out, as I understand it), I'd suspect that yes, it would have been considered.
Seems like there might be plenty of very different mechanisms for the many (possibly quite unrelated) circular features like these – from fungi, hydrogen seeps (and hydrogen‑oxidising soil bacteria?), Turing patterns and plant interactions, insects, et cetera.
But these smaller Namibian ones probably share a single cause, being similar in size.
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It absolutely does not explain zebra stripes and leopard spots. Both are products of gene expression of individual cells (perhaps early development which causes differences between individuals).
That is problem with Turing patterns here is that while they can show a similar pattern, there is no explanation attached. In the lead photo, you can see some circles being filled in so plant competition and water don't make sense. Not to mention remaining very circular and being less denser than surrounding areas.
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"To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit - ever."
I mean....we are all just hoping for a really sneaky gopher right?
I mean....we are all just hoping for a really sneaky gopher right?
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you gotta believe me, what a seamless integration between your name and comment, yeah.
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The termites only needed one more vote to break the tie and they've just got it! Ladies and gentlemen, the termites have won it all! (crowd roars)
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